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Comedy? Tragedy?
Posted by Laura at November 21, 2005 12:18 AM... [Blitzer]: Listen to what you said, Mr. Secretary, on January 20, 2003, two months before the war started.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: Large, unaccounted for stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, including V.X., sarin, mustard gas, anthrax, botulism and possibly smallpox. And he has an active program to acquire and develop nuclear weapons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All that was wrong, right?
RUMSFELD: No.
It was correct that there were large -- let me answer your question, Wolf.
BLITZER: But did he have a large, active program to acquire nuclear weapons?
RUMSFELD: Let me answer your question.
There were large, unaccounted for deposits. And that was the conclusion of the U.N.
It was the conclusion that was -- they went through 17 resolutions. It was the conclusion of U.S. intelligence. And it was accurate to say that they were unaccounted for. That is a fact. BLITZER: And what about he has an active program to acquire and develop nuclear weapons?
RUMSFELD: We have not been able to validate that on the ground.
BLITZER: That was a mistake?
RUMSFELD: And prewar intelligence was clearly imperfect.
BLITZER: All right. Let's go to the next sound byte.
Listen to what you said on September 26, 2002, several months before the war. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: We do have solid evidence of the presence in Iraq of Al Qaida members, including some that have been in Baghdad. We have what we consider to be very reliable reporting of senior-level contacts going back a decade and of possible chemical and biological agent training. When I say contacts, I mean between Iraq and Al Qaida.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: That was a mistake?
RUMSFELD: No. Zarqawi was in there.
It was clearly -- there clearly were Al Qaida in and around Iraq.
BLITZER: You believe that to this day?
RUMSFELD: Zarqawi was physically in Baghdad.
BLITZER: But...
RUMSFELD: They were operating...
BLITZER: Was he then -- Abu Musab al-Zarqawi -- associated directly with Al Qaida?
RUMSFELD: No, probably not.
BLITZER: So why would you say that there was a connection between Iraq and Al Qaida?
RUMSFELD: Because the intelligence reported that there were Al Qaida that moved in and out of Iraq and had some connection with the Saddam Hussein regime.
BLITZER: That was on September 26, 2002.
RUMSFELD: Saddam Hussein...
BLITZER: The intelligence -- your intelligence in February 2002 said exactly the opposite. There was a DIA intelligence estimate that's now been declassified -- Senator Levin released it -- that said this. "It is possible he does not know" -- referring to this intelligence source -- "does not know any further details. It is more likely this individual is intentionally misleading the debriefers. Even Shaykh al-Libi has been undergoing debriefs for several weeks and may be describing scenarios to the debriefers that he knows will retain their interest."
In effect, the DIA concluded this source, which alleged this Iraq-Al Qaida connection, was a fabricator.
RUMSFELD: There is no question that there are fabricators that operate in the intelligence world. And there's also no question you can find intelligence reports on every side of every issue.
When you look at the reams of intelligence information that the United States develops from different agencies, they gather from other friendly foreign liaison services, you can find in any given week intelligence that conflicts with each other. The implication that there's something amazing about that is just ridiculous.
BLITZER: But the basis of the intelligence...
RUMSFELD: We know intelligence is imperfect.
BLITZER: That's why the U.S. went to war: the WMD and the Iraq- Al Qaida connection that you alleged.
RUMSFELD: The reason the United States went to war, the president has announced and said it repeatedly. There were 17 resolutions in the U.N. that were ignored by Saddam Hussein. Our planes were being shot at on a regular basis in the Operation Southern Watch and Operation Northern Watch. Saddam Hussein was giving $25,000 to the families of suicide bombers. Iraq was on the terrorist list. Iraq had used chemical weapons against its own people and its neighbors.
BLITZER: But, Mr. Secretary, wasn't Iraq under Saddam Hussein in those days effectively contained by the United Nations, by the U.S., the no-fly zones, the economic sanctions, the diplomatic sanctions? Weren't they effectively contained? And certainly, with hindsight, Saddam Hussein did not pose much of a threat to the United States.
RUMSFELD: The -- you say was it effectively contained?
It was certainly engaged in doing things that were harmful -- shooting at our airplanes, the only place in the world that was taking place. The United Nations -- ignoring 17 U.N. resolutions. The sanctions obviously were not working very well.
BLITZER: Let me...
RUMSFELD: Just let me answer your question. Just a minute.
BLITZER: Go ahead.
RUMSFELD: The sanctions were obviously not working very well, which sanctions tend not to after a long period of time. You've read what's been going on with the oil-for-food in the United Nations.
BLITZER: But based on the fact that the United States didn't find any stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction...
RUMSFELD: It's clear the intelligence was wrong.
BLITZER: And it's clear that he didn't really represent much of a threat.
RUMSFELD: If you're talking about whether or not the intelligence was correct, everyone has agreed it was not.
BLITZER: Here is the question that a lot of people want you to answer.
Do you as the defense secretary owe the American people an apology for all that bad intelligence?
RUMSFELD: Why would the Defense Department -- it's the intelligence community that made the intelligence. It was CIA and...
BLITZER: But the DIA had an intelligence operation. And you had a separate intelligence operation that Doug Feith, one of your top aides, was running.
RUMSFELD: It was not a separate intelligence organization. You've been reading the press too long.
BLITZER: What is the inspector general investigating now as far as Doug Feith and his intelligence operation?
RUMSFELD: I really don't know. ...