Faster please please. Unless the FBI already has a lot of very good leads already, won't the Bush team just use stalling and foot dragging.

Laura, if you get a chance, can you comment on this (from the bottom of the WaPo article):

"Another official, an ideological ally of Feith's, said, however, that the investigation is part of an effort by some in the intelligence community to discredit Pentagon hawks. "This is part of a civil war within the administration, a basic dislike between the old CIA and neo-conservatives," the official said."

Is that just a neo-con deflection, pure and simple?

Or do you think that's playing a part, to some extent?

Or some combination of the two?

I mean, clearly these people rub many Americans, let alone old-line CIA types, the wrong way. The whole (apparently correct) anti-Chalabi position of the CIA - and probably other feuds I'm not aware of - illustrate these guys have been on opposite sides from the get go.

Do we now know why Bush couldn't fire all these neo-con clowns? He couldn't fire them because a massive investigation was going on involving the whole kit and kaboodle, and they couldn't risk blowing the investigation? He probably wouldn't have fired anybody, but all the people who needed to be fired were in Defense, where all the bodies are, nobody got the boot, and we the informed public are outraged that nobody's sent packing, chalking it up to a crazed sense of loyalty. Can we also give them somewhat of a pass on their secrecy trip, since they may have been protecting the investigation by not saying much? Must we now reconsider our outrage that Bush himself did not personally get to the bottom of who leaked Plame's name to Novak. Were his hands tied because of the investigation? Holy mackerel, Andy! We might have got them all wrong on alot of counts!? I don't believe I'm saying this.

Bush was/is involved in this mess wholeheartedly. Wake up, people Bush's hands are dirty, he may not have initiated all the actions but he certainly knew what going on.

Bush had to sit for a 70 minutes interview in the WH regarding the Plame leak investigation. They must have info that Bush knows alots or at least ware of the activities in his WH.

This is bigger than Watergate. We have lost and continue to lose lives in Iraq. National security and secrets are at stake. All roads lead to the WH and Rummy's office.

SoCalJustice:

My guess would be a combination of the two.

By politicizing and effectively de-professionalizing intelligence this administration has made some very formidable enemies. Sy Hersh wrote somewhat speculatively that the Niger documents might have been drafted by retired CIA types to humilliate the administration. Who knows if that is true but certainly there's the potential for that sort of score-setting from the spooks and their cronies. Very dangerous enemies.

I've sensed for some time that there is a network of ex-intelligence officials and their bureaucratic allies who are engaged in total war against the neoconservatives. I don't think it has to do with Bush per se; these folks would likely be satisfied with a return to sanity. I strongly suspect some of this group is behind thisisrumorcontrol.org.

The name "Vincenzo" springs to mind.

Odd thing about Vincenzo -- if I'm right about who he is -- is that he was one of the guys who was viciously criticizing our 1980s Afghan policy from the right. As in, ole Charlie Wilson was sending in enough Stingers and so forth.

While I do agree that the neoconservatives are dangerous ideologues, I also feel that this opposing camp is more than a little strange as well. They may be correct about certain particulars related to counterterrorism but some of them have rather bloodthirsty views. My reading of Imperial Hubris drove this point home for me.

Why is the FBI copying AIPAC's hard drives? A real investigation would have seized the computers to do a sector analysis on the drives to find old data and undelete deleted files. Call Peter Norton.

re K-R story:

1. first-time I've read that FBI is studying "the production of bogus documents" rather than just the handling of the Niger forgeries.

2. I wonder who the "administration official" who's talking is.

Yes, definitely go faster, please, but don't let Bush and his other warmongering cronies off the hook. One thing that seems to be a backstory in articles you link and some that Juan Cole has been following seem to be designed to tar the neocons for the failures and attempt to absolve Bush for his part. I've pulled out some of the more interesting quotes that show this here: http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/002684.html.

The plot thickens:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/473264.html

Perle. Perle. Perle.

He was the first to step down, under some kind of pressure, - from the chair, then as a member of the Policy Board. He's still a director on the Jerusalem Post, I think, and of course he was the chief link with Chalabi and all that money.

And he's been so very, very quiet lately.

This quote near the end of the Post Article and referenced by Socal justice should be the lead article of all the leaked stories this story has a not a single substantive official public commment or action. I read it as a smear campaign against neo-cons, Israel, AIPAC and Chalabi. The 'warrant'for Chalabi in Iraq happened after the DOD had turned over control to DOState).

Israel and the US are strategic allies and for unamed sources to be providing the amount of information that is being published (unsubstantiated) there can only be an intent to damage this relationship.

Take a look at the Arab media to see the delight this story has created.

Another official, an ideological ally of Feith's, said, however, that the investigation is part of an effort by some in the intelligence community to discredit Pentagon hawks. "This is part of a civil war within the administration, a basic dislike between the old CIA and neo-conservatives," the official said.

This coomentary in Haaretz this monring by an ex-Israeli Ambassador to the US presents what I believe is the objective of those leaking the story.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/471812.html

I suspect it is indeed a civil war inside the government; but this a civil war that is a just war in my opinion.

These guys have been getting away with murder since they first made their appearance in the Reagan administration. The fact that their main public defenses seems to be a variation on "sure some classified material might have been passed to the Israelis; but we do it every day, so what's the big deal?" shows how deep the institutionalized corruption goes.

Bush is solidly in the neocon camp, in my opinion, despite some campaign-motivated moves to the center. The appointment of Goss to CIA is as clear a signal as one needs to see that he is on board in trying to replace the "Old CIA" with the new neocon CIA.

Remember reports that FBI was investigating whether Chalabi had told Iranian agents that the US has broken their communication codes. If it's true now that Chalabi recieved classified US intelligence on Iran from sources within the Pentagon wouldnt it be safe to assume then that Iran's Intelligence Ministries already knows who in the Pentagon gave him that information and what this information, US classified intelligence on Iran was?

Itamar Rabinovich is being dishonest in that Haaretz commentary (I did like his book on the Yom Kippur war, though). Pollard was busted bigtime not for spying for Israel per se but rather because the info he leaked very likely ended up in Soviet hands. If that isn't "biting the hand that feeds you," I don't know what is.

Itamar Rabinovich hasn't written a book about the Yom Kippur War; you're probably thinking of the recent book by Abraham Rabinovich (no relation, as far as I know). "Waging Peace" by Itamar is quite good.

I don't think Rabinovich was being dishonest in that article, he just seemed to be lamenting the long shadow that the Pollard affair sometimes casts on Israelis in the US who end up not being guilty of anything. He didn't seem to be mischaracterizing what Pollard did.

oops. my mistake. I always mix those guys up.

I like both of 'em, by the way.

Since the neocons were so infatuated with Chalabi, I have to wonder if he sweet-talked them into giving him intelligence about Israel, or any other sensitive intelligence.

This analysis is form the Jerusalem Post today:
Column One: Policy wars and real wars
By CAROLINE GLICK

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1094111909970

(by the way and not meaning to be too paranoid, but is it not strange that the Conrad Cleptocracy charges have also mentioned Pearls and this overlaps the leaks that are the basis of the articles on AIPAC, et. al.)

What is the source of the information that Naor Gilon is an expert on Iranian affairs? I read his bio on the Israeli Embassy web site and I didn't see any mention of his Iran expertise.

Is that information being fed to the public? Which reporter did the research?

Anyone have any idea how the Plame case is mixed-up in this? I thought that was coming from a different office entirely.

jeff: it is called the PNAC's emperial plan. it started out with the 911 attack because the neo-cons needed a Pearl Harbor 2, then Iraq then Iran, along the way they sexed up intel data, forged niger papers to prove Iraq had nuclear weapons, cherry picked raw intel data then stove piped them all the way to The WH, outed an undercover CIA agent to intimidate dissenters.

it is a long story, but it can be summed up in 1 word: PNAC led by the neo-cons cabal or should I say traitors currently in power in DC. I guess Americans don't care so Bush/Cheney regime will keep doing what they had planned to do even before they won 2000 election.

1. Pearle's a little busy: Hollinger/Black, etc.
2. Aw come on guys, it's just a few bad apples. Bush was out of the loop.

Laura,

I'm intrigued by your offhand comment about Rafsanjani and the MEK and dissidents in the security services.

Are you saying that Rafsanjani and the Expediency Council are plotting against the Council of Guardians???

Give us a hint?

Dan

Dear Laura:

Thanks so much for your work. Paraphrasing Dickens, this is the shop for justice. I?m definitely planning to contribute when I get some liquidity.

I?m writing now to ask if you still believe that there?s an active investigation into these matters now that Ashcroft has stepped in and placed McNulty, a political hack, in charge of the investigation. One of your commentators speculated that McNulty was put into place just as criminal charges were about to be laid. If that?s the case wouldn?t it mean that the fix is in, perhaps for the whole ball of wax, and continuing stories simply reflect a petering out of the whole affair? It certainly wouldn?t be the first time a major investigation has been dropped for political reasons. All the more so in that we?re dealing with Israel, normally a third rail.

Is there any way to get the name of the Justice official who McNulty replaced? It would be interesting to get his views.

Byron

Hi All,
Hi Byron,

There is very much an active FBI investigation of alleged Israeli espionage activities within the USG. I have information i have promised friends who work hard for it that I won't give out 'til they publish. But trust me on this. Franklin is not even the focus of the investigation. It goes far beyond Franklin.

Whether the people who would like to suppress this investigation are successful, as I take it they have been many times in the past, I cannot tell you. But I believe the FBI's apparent motivation for apparently leaking this investigation this time, was to prevent that from happening.

Best
Laura

Laura,
With all due respect, this is all inuendo until there are indictments or other public legal actions. The only one I know of is that the FBI interviewed 2 AIPAC emplyees and copied a hard drive.

I will be looking for substantiated facts.

Did anyone consider that a conspiracy is not illegal unless law is broken; We might we seeing evidence of a conspiracy for good.

Ivan

Ivan:

Whose good? That is the whole point here. Not everyone shares your point of view on this.

"Did anyone consider that a conspiracy is not illegal unless law is broken"

As a nitpicky detail matter, in most jurisdictions a person can be prosecuted for criminal conspiracy if the person agrees with another that they or others engage in conduct that would constitute an offense, and the person or another performs an overt act in pursuance of the agreement. Strictly speaking, the "overt act" need not itself be criminal to make the persons involved subject to prosecution for criminal conspiracy.

Ivan,
I am more sympathetic to your idea of a conspiracy for good than is apparent, I guess.

The fact is, it seemed the idea of overt or covert assistance to opposition groups in Iran, for instance, is an idea that should be on the table in the inter-agency debate about US policy to Iran.

But what I think gets members of -- for shorthand, I'll just say the Feith shop here -- so often in trouble, is their attempt to short circuit the not just legal but administration authorized channels for everything from intelligence analysis to coming up with policy ideas. So much is conducted in secret -- secret also to key agency heads, including the WhiteHouse and NSC. They have a pattern of resisting the discipline and orders to stand down when they come. And so many of the activities are without the barest hint of Congressional oversight. No one doubts that that is just exactly how they like it.

I'm not a lawyer. But I imagine that is the very definition of rogue foreign policy, and begs the question, who is authorized to conduct US foreign policy to Iran in the Bush administration?

I don't think they can authorize themselves.

LKR

Another problem with unauthorized back channels that is apparent in LKR's reporting is that they are perhaps more vulnerable to disinformation, and disinformation coming through them is less likely to be discovered. Resulting in less-than-well-founded policy.

So Laura hate to interrupt your gleeful party 'faster please'

Let me see if get this right.
Parts of our government want to overthrow or help the people of Iran get rid of the Mullahocracy who hangs teenage girls, closes newspapers, imports goons to beat up, stab, shoot and kill student protestors, a regime that jails original 75 year old revolutionaries who are sick of its repression and corruption, a public that is sick of its stealing, repression, corruption and sham elections and "reform/conservative" stalin model parties................................

So some may have leaked some helpful information to people who want to overthrow this government which is in a hot/cold war with us backing terrorist groups that murder Americans and our allies including Israel, that is infiltrating and trying to murder our soldiers, and is trying to build nucleur weapons?

And the BIG DEAL IS WHAT EXACTLY?

PLEASE LET ME KNOW!
Again, hate to break up the """Neo-con happy witch hunt""" here..........

Mike

Mike,
We are a nation of laws. Do you feel the same way about Iran contra? After all, that too was done for a 'good cause' (according to Ollie). What other domestic laws are you willing to see violated in support of secret foreign policy objectives?

dave wrote, "Strictly speaking, the 'overt act' need not itself be criminal to make the persons involved subject to prosecution for criminal conspiracy."

To add to that (on conspiracy), in many Federal cases, the preponderance of evidence is quashed, most often due to pleabargains. There are many upon many "criminals" serving long sentences for conspiracy charges -- from white collar charges to drug-related charges. Much of it is "He said, she said", finger-pointing kinda bullsh*t. Of course, many of those people do not go to jury trial for various reasons.

Insofar as troll Mike... Yes, and Saddam with his rape rooms etc. Seems to be the typical right-wing looptape of response. Remember, though, bushco went to war due to "slam dunk" [I assert manufactured] intelligence about WMD. What's wrong with this? THEY LIED. bushco could give two flips about the Iraqi people; look at how bushco have treated the Iraqi people. It's a, "Bend over and accept your freedom, rectally, and like it." It's really quite shameful.

To me, it's crazy that our "leaders" seem to live by a completely different set of rules and LAWS than we, the citizens. Representative democracy?

ZZI
++++++We are a nation of laws. Do you feel the same way about Iran contra? After all, that too was done for a 'good cause' (according to Ollie). What other domestic laws are you willing to see violated in support of secret foreign policy objectives?+++++++

Of course, I agree. However, the way this story was broken you'd have thought it was the next Aldrich Ames case. Leslie Stahl hit all the red letter language with a looming picture of the Pentagon... "a mole" "may have infiltrated" and "passed 'Top Secret'" information...

Granted you can't have parts of the CIA or FBI breaking off and doing what they like.
But its ok for someone to leak this story to the press in order to make AIPAC, the neo-cons, Israel, DoD, and this administration look bad?
for either interagency battles, State & DoD battles, election year points for Dems?

Of course Leslie Stahl backed off all the original neat hype to note that it was not as reported and likely involved different circumstances than first reported and was if anything a much lesser case than "passing top-secret information" THE NEXT DAY??

And again, it involves supposedly passing information from either parts of the Dod, and/or CIA to allies about an enemy.
Again not exactly the Ames case..... Leslie was drooling over as well.
Notably Laura in her first post changes her tune in the latest Update on this... IN THE SAME POST!

So far all its been is a publicity stunt in a political campaign and on going war between the old guard in the CIA and FBI who are afraid they'll get squeezed in the new Intelligence re-structuring and State and DoD who are battling to have their guys in there.....
no matter though let the hounds loose.

DQUEUE
++++++Insofar as troll Mike... Yes, and Saddam with his rape rooms etc. Seems to be the typical right-wing looptape of response.++++++

Is this guy typical of the level of discourse here?

++++++Remember, though, bushco went to war due to "slam dunk" [I assert manufactured] intelligence about WMD. What's wrong with this? THEY LIED. bushco could give two flips about the Iraqi people; look at how bushco have treated the Iraqi people. It's a, "Bend over and accept your freedom, rectally, and like it." It's really quite shameful.++++++

Stick to the routine, a pill at breakfast, lunch and dinner.. :-) Double up.

+++++To me, it's crazy that our "leaders" seem to live by a completely different set of rules and LAWS than we, the citizens. Representative democracy?+++++

Yeah, we live in something starting to approach Iran or Russia...
Tehran's beautiful this time of the year?
Bring the pills though. :-)-

Mike

Unifying theory? Hardly.

Not until you explain why Section 311 of the PATRIOT Act (anti-money laundering measures) appears to be used to target foreign banks aggresively with "special measures" and financial excommunication, while US-Anglo banks like Citigroup, JP Morgan Chase and Riggs get off with a vigorous scolding. Oh, and a fine -- but it's not like that money really goes away, does it?

I tend to agree with John Kerry on this issue:

"When banks engage knowingly in the laundering of money, they should be shut down. It's that simple, it really is."

http://tinyurl.com/48edh

(1) Rafsanjani was I seem to recall behind Gorbanifar in the original Iran/Contra affair, but that just proves he knows how to play both sides of a given street, which is in itself not proof of anything except agility. At the time, there was a small amen corner trying to argue it meant he was a 'liberal' (which is code here for 'interested in lining his pockets with bribes from US corporations').
(2) The other shoe here is the fact that NSA decrypts are higher security than just CIA policy wonk stuff.

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